416-8C info please?

[gearfreak]

- and to clarify - the M19 cabinet is of course not horn loaded... just an alternate established Altec cab design.

- as for whether it would get you the same result as the 816 - (shrug).

I think the conversation would then turn to how much of what you heard was horn loading, vs. 'direct radiation' from the 416 itself.

Where the cabinets were positioned in the room (and where they would be in yours) may come into play etc. (The mention of 30" EV's in the back wall - makes it sound like it could have been a large space).

Again, knowing the crossover points will help that thought process along.

i.e. the lower the xover point to the LF gets, the less of the horn loading was occurring, and thus maybe the M19 is just or more suitable.

[whitebroncoii]

The 816 cabinet design was pictured on early data sheets with the horn flares horizontal and the port on the bottom. Many were actually placed in clusters in this orientation. We started measuring speaker coverage for the AcoustaCad design software in the early '90s and discovered the 816 flare should be vertical with the port on one side. This orientation produces a typical pattern where the horizontal coverage is greater than the vertical. This begins to make sense when one realizes the horn flare produces a tighter pattern then the straight walls.

Point of information: The 816 (all versions) will grow in the vertical coverage (horn flares) above 800Hz. This can be a problem in a flown cluster and probably not so much a problem for home stereo.

When developing the 816VI we used two ports for symmetry. This made the cabinet better looking, no other reason. The port frequency, flare and volume of the 816VI is the same as all previous versions.

The suspension kit is a full frame that the 816VI sits in. This eliminates the possibility of the cabinet coming apart and falling on someone. A single kit can be suspended any way you want (sideways, slantways, etc)

The 816VI was loaded with a 515-8GHP. The later 515 woofers were specifically designed for base-horn application and were generally marginal in ported cabs. The advantage of the later 515 was the very light mass and large motor. In a base-horn cab they are said to be as accurate as a 12" mid. The 416 will work in an 816, the 515 works better.

Frequency response is typical of a base-horn. In open air there is a step down of about 6dB when the horn unloads. For the 816 this is around 200Hz and can be clearly seen on the data sheet. Placed in a half-space or better (on the floor, against a wall) this step-down disappears and response can be very flat. However, the 816 is not going to deliver dynamic bass for movies or Hip-Hop music.

[bowtie427ss]

I think the conversation would then turn to how much of what you heard was horn loading, vs. 'direct radiation' from the 416 itself.

The lifelike dynamics from that short little horn have an intoxicating effect, so much so that they can alter our perception to a point where the missing octaves at both ends of the spectrum become almost moot.................. for a while.

[gearfreak]

The lifelike dynamics from that short little horn have an intoxicating effect, so much so that they can alter our perception to a point where the missing octaves at both ends of the spectrum become almost moot.................. for a while.

Very well put I think, and wb2's very well written before that.

[music2myears]

Thanks!!!

The 816:s I listened to were vertically posistioned. I'll try to find out the xover points, but I do know that it's a passive system.

BTW: The 416-8C:s I've got, have ser. no:s 02605 & 02607 - an idea when these were made?

Here are some pics of them

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

BTW: The 416-8C:s I've got, have ser. no:s 02605 & 02607 - an idea when these were made?

Look for the EIA codes...... 391xxx, or with as late as the C is, it might have another digit. The extra digit is just a guess, Though. I don't know if Altec ever added another digit or not.

[bowtie427ss]

Those are what i call "flat mag" 416's, made for a relatively short window of time, i think circa 1982-84. Most 416-8C have a smaller diameter foilcal which is recessed into a slight depression in the back plate, and most had the rubber tire around the edge of the ferrite to protect it from chipping.

The 391XXX code might be difficult to find, the ones i remember from that era are stamped on the inside of a spoke, or in the hub/flange area where the basket bolts to the motor facing the back of the cone.

[music2myears]

Where the cabinets were positioned in the room (and where they would be in yours) may come into play etc. (The mention of 30" EV's in the back wall - makes it sound like it could have been a large space).

No, it's actually a small sized room, perhaps 3x6x2.5m (WxLxH), and the 2x30" EV are mounted in the back wall - on the other side of this wall is a small storage space, perhaps 3x1x2.5m.

Again, knowing the crossover points will help that thought process along.
i.e. the lower the xover point to the LF gets, the less of the horn loading was occurring, and thus maybe the M19 is just or more suitable.

500Hz & 10kHz
I'm wondering at what frequencies horn loading occurs with the 828 (& the 816)?
I also have a pair of JBL 2220A:s, that I'm not quite sure what to do with, but they seem to be wanting/requiring proper horn loading to produce good bass.

Those are what i call "flat mag" 416's, made for a relatively short window of time, i think circa 1982-84. Most 416-8C have a smaller diameter foilcal which is recessed into a slight depression in the back plate, and most had the rubber tire around the edge of the ferrite to protect it from chipping.
The 391XXX code might be difficult to find, the ones i remember from that era are stamped on the inside of a spoke, or in the hub/flange area where the basket bolts to the motor facing the back of the cone.

Foilcal? Grateful if you can let me know what that is please.
"Flat mags"...are these different when it comes to technical spec. or "sound"?
The number is 391020, if that helps.

[bowtie427ss]

Foilcal is just a term we've all slanged describing the decal on the magnet, rather than a paper or vinyl substrate, many of the Altec decals were actually printed on a heavy guage aluminum foil, thus foilcal.

My understanding based on the comments of others is that the later motor assemblies are an improvement, but i can't offer any first hand experience with one vs. the other.

391020 would date to the 20th week of 1980, so it appears i'm off a bit on the time frame these were made.

[whitebroncoii]

I got off on a tangent with the 816 cabinets when your question included the 416-8C. The 416-8C was the one and only version that used ferrite for the magnet. Earlier versions were Alnico. Although there are plenty of folks that prefer the Alnico, there is little difference in specs or performance.

The 416 was original equipment in the A7 and Model 19. This speaks to its ability to work well in either a base-horn or direct-radiating cabinet.

It is my opinion the 416-8B and 416-8C are almost the same woofer.